I think that people should be free of all types of harassment in the workplace. I think that this includes sexual, religious, ethnic and so forth.
The ACLJ and the Liberty Counsel tell us that we are free to share our religion in the workplace with our co-workers. This would include in the breakroom, lunch break... pretty much anywhere that co-workers are allowed to talk about anything they want.
My point is is this not a two way street? Once someone begins telling me about their religion, do I not have the right to say "That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
Case in point, this Mormon is going on about his religion. So I ask him about Joseph Smith and the golden tablets. Then I ask him about his holy undergarments. He got spittin mad!
Keep in mind that this guy has been spreading his beliefs for at least two weeks. Now, because I brought up the holy underwear, he has threatened to file a harassment complaint. Where does his rights end and mine begin? I couldn't help but notice that a few people here think that you were "rude, or mean" when mentioning "holy undergarments".
To someone who knows very little about the Mormon faith (LDS) this would seem like you were just being a complete prick.
The fact is, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) who are "worthy" enough to go to the Temple and undergo an "Endowment" DO IN FACT wear something called "garments". These garments are to be worn underneath clothing at all times and not to be shown to the public.
You were NOT harassing him. He brought up his religion, and you asked a question about it.
He's probably upset because things that occur in the Temple are sacred and not supposed to be spoken of much around "people who don't understand the significance".
He needs to not be so sensitive and understand that he walked right into this.
Seriously though, don't worry about the suit. You asked a legitimate question about an ACTUAL Mormon practice after he opened himself to question about said faith. If you can't tell someone your beliefs, how can they tell you yours? best way to say this.. you can't win... the law is set up to protect people and not to protect the freedom of speech of the person telling that other guy that his religion is rediculous... i think your best bet is to prove it's false... i can help you there.. i've become an expert on mormonism to try and convert my girlfriend.. and it worked.. so.. it's a fairly okay knowledgebase.. email me through this if you like. when they all get over for all stuff.... Your walking in a mine field(liability issue) buddy. He's threatened to file a complaint? Well that's a two way street now isn't it? Religious information (whether requested or not) is just what some people want to give. The way I look at it, DON麓T PUT THIS ON ME, PERSON. I don麓t put my beliefs on anybody unless they ask and they need a few years to sit down for some serious talking. So basically, it is something I try to avoid and wouldn麓t go near it with a ten foot pole (that I took from my neighbors yard). There is ALWAYS room for argument coming from ALL sides. So if you don麓t want the headache, it麓s better to just answer when asked. But anyway, to call a religion rediculous (even if it is immoral or wrong) is NOT going to fly with the person you tell it to, so basically ONLY say that if you are ready for an argument. Good luck. Love and Respect. That's just being, silly. I mean the mormon guy. Doesn't your country have this 'Freedom of Speech' motto?
Just tell him to piss off. His religion is not ridiculous, HE IS! I think that it is best to say that you aren't interested in being proselytized at work. That would serve you better than letting the guy go on and on, thinking that you are interested, only to have you say something repellent about his religion. When the Mormon missionaries have come to my home, I sat through the initial spiel several times. I couldn't help but catch the line about the first picture in their book, "Here is illiterate Joseph Smith reading the tablets". I guess that's part of the miracle, but it didn't sit well with me. Ok, how to say this,
at anytime, you could have told him your not interested in hearing about his religion. Nothing he said to you was derogatory or inappropriate.
Yes, you have the right to say, "That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!" .
BUT, your comments about" holy undergarments" was totaly inappropiate and can get you fired.
Now if he had started talking about his religion and you had told him, im not interested, and he continued to bring it up, then that would have been inappropiate.
Just because someone starts talking about a subject your not interested in, doesn't give you the right to make inappropiate comments. You just have to tell them you don't want to talk about that subject. Whether its baseball or religion. Just ask him not to talk to you about it and dont ask him any questions (it only incourages him to tall some more) You both have rights!But if you don't want to hear about his religion.That is your right! But the way you handle letting him know that you don't want to hear about it-can cross the line for his rights too! Everyone has their own beliefs=that's their right.Maybe you can say "Sorry man I've been having a bad day,and I guess I took it out on you.But if you don't mind I'd rather you didn't tell me about your religion any more." He may forgive you,and drop the complaint,and leave you alone too. If he's been spreading his beliefs for a couple of weeks, you're entitled to tell him what you think of him and where to go. If he uses that as an excuse to file an harrassment complaint, file one in return simply because his COMPLAINT seeks to exploit the system to harrass others. Any worker is free to practice or select a religion. Thus, questions about a religion is just fine to know what a co-worker is spreading in the workplace. I would just tell him thanks for sharing, but work isn't the place for it. Convert on his own time. If you have to repeat yourself, it will be taken up with management. Your company should have it's own policies and procedures for dealing with situations like this and more than likely they follow the rules I found in the below. But you must move forward appropriately if you want to effect change.
YOU DO HAVE OPTIONS AND THE POWER HERE. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS.
My single source for all of this is below.
To know: They can not restrict him in ADVANCE; however,.
!!! -- "... employees must refrain from such expression when a fellow employee asks that it stop or otherwise demonstrates that it is unwelcome." (source below.) -- !!!
You should have just simply asked him to stop approaching you with this topic and then gone to management if he didn't quit.
Instead, "(a) During a coffee break, one employee engages another in a polite discussion of why his faith should be embraced. The other employee disagrees with the first employee's religious exhortations, but does not ask that the conversation stop. Under these circumstances, agencies should not restrict or interfere with such speech."
Just approach him the next time he says anything around or near you with this, "(Name), as you know, we don't see eye to eye on our religious beliefs. I would really appreciate if you could respect our differing view points and not bring up religion again in my presence."
If he wants to engage you on it, calmly repeat that you "do not want to discuss such things in the workplace" and walk away if he persists.
DOCUMENT YOUR CONVERSATION!
If hours and days later he still doesn't quit now that you have asked him then you can take it up with your higher ups as being an issue that is affecting your level of "satisfaction and efficiency" (use those words and document how it is affecting you - I have to get up and leave my work area every time he comes around just to get away from it, I can't concentrate on my work, it is distracting, he is clearly using work time for something else and it bothers me that projects are not being completed because he is chatting up his religion on the clock instead, etc etc.)
Let THEM deal with it! They have to now that you have gone to them.
----------------------
Re: his "file a harassment complaint"
DO NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE to him about the details of his religion or engage him on specifics. Especially do not belittle, tease, or "engender offensive feelings" from him. Read Section D below in full and you'll see that he'd have a very hard time filing any kind of harassment complaint if it hasn't affected his performance or job yet. JUST DO NOT ENGAGE HIM AGAIN!
---
(QUOTING)
D. Hostile Work Environment and Harassment. Employers violate Title VII's ban on discrimination by creating or tolerating a "hostile environment" in which an employee is subject to discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, or insult sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the conditions of the victim's employment. This statutory standard can be triggered (at the very least) when an employee, because of her or his religion or lack thereof, is exposed to intimidation, ridicule, and insult. The hostile conduct -- which may take the form of speech -- need not come from supervisors or from the employer. Fellow employees can create a hostile environment through their own words and actions.
The existence of some offensive workplace conduct does not necessarily constitute harassment under Title VII. Occasional and isolated utterances of an epithet that engenders offensive feelings in an employee typically would not affect conditions of employment, and therefore would not in and of itself constitute harassment. A hostile environment, for Title VII purposes, is not created by the bare expression of speech with which one disagrees. For religious harassment to be illegal under Title VII, it must be sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the conditions of employment and create an abusive working environment. Whether conduct can be the predicate for a finding of religious harassment under Title VII depends on the totality of the circumstances, such as the nature of the verbal or physical conduct at issue and the context in which the alleged incidents occurred. As the Supreme Court has said in an analogous context:
[W]hether an environment is "hostile" or "abusive" can be determined only by looking at all the circumstances. These may include the frequency of the discriminatory conduct; its severity; whether it is physically threatening or humiliating, or a mere offensive utterance; and whether it unreasonably interferes with an employee's work performance. The effect on the employee's psychological well-being is, of course, relevant to determining whether the plaintiff actually found the environment abusive. Harris v. Forklift Systems, Inc., 510 U.S. 17, 23 (1993).
The use of derogatory language directed at an employee can rise to the level of religious harassment if it is severe or invoked repeatedly. In particular, repeated religious slurs and negative religious stereotypes, or continued disparagement of an employee's religion or ritual practices, or lack thereof, can constitute harassment. It is not necessary that the harassment be explicitly religious in character or that the slurs reference religion: it is sufficient that the harassment is directed at an employee because of the employee's religion or lack thereof. That is to say, Title VII can be violated by employer tolerance of repeated slurs, insults and/or abuse not explicitly religious in nature if that conduct would not have occurred but for the targete d employee's religious belief or lack of religious belief. Finally, although proselytization directed at fellow employees is generally permissible (subject to the special considerations relating to supervisor expression discussed elsewhere in these Guidelines), such activity must stop if the listener asks that it stops or otherwise demonstrates that it is unwelcome.
-------------------------------
BTW, the same thing happened at my work place about 3 years ago and the guy only lasted about 2-3 weeks after he was confronted for not stopping. Seems when he felt like he wasn't allowed to preach, he didn't feel like having a job anymore.
Chin up. You are in the right here, but HOLD your temper and handle this the right way!! Look into your companies HR policies. Many have to reflect federal and state laws on free speech and harassment so I'll put my money on you being juuuuust fine in pressing this issue.
~JS You have the right to share your side as well. If you are wanting to be serious about sharing your views, don't pick on the little things like underwear. Concentrate on the big things like "Was Joseph Smith really a prophet?" "Reconcile the nature of God" "Is the church a true restoration - the Book of Hebrews says it's not!"
The underwear is one that may get you a harassment charge because it relates to personal clothing. Well, everyone has the right to talk about it, on their own time, and they also have the rigth to react in their way. Additionally, if someone tells another they do not wish to talk about it, or that something is offensive, then the other person should probably stop. Now, unless you are a superior, he probably doesn't have a claim against you. Because under the law it typical deals with people in power and who can make decisions which effect you. If you are a superior, and you are saying things you know makes the employee uncomfortable and hostile, then you are in trouble. The safe thing is to be respectful of all people regardless of belief, which is of course a two-way street. It does sound like you aren't necessary being respectful, and I can't say if he was because I don't know what he said about your beliefs.
Lastly, your company may have its own guidelines or policies, which you should read. Because it may be against policies to create a hostile workplace or harass another, even about something they may have opened. Good luck. You can only tell a co-worker that if when you have become very good friends with him or her and spend time outside of work. Making such statements against someone's religion in the workplace is not appropriate nor acceptable. ...holy undergarments?
LOL..HAHAHA!!!
Just bring a gun to work and calmly ask him if he REALLY wants to persue this line of complaint |
