If there was no actual law that required you to pay income tax (its true), would you still pay it?

I just saw this amazing documentary that just came out called America: Freedom to Fascism. In it, the filmaker starts out by researching the fact that there really are no laws that require us to pay income tax despite the fact that people are put in jail all the time for not paying. The IRS knows it, but won't admit it. They fire any IRS agent that inquires about it. The congress knows it, but won't talk about it. Its really amazing! I would really recommend this movie to every American out there. So, if you saw this movie and were convinced that it was true, would you pay your income tax? By the way, 100% of our income tax money goes towards paying our national debt interest, not funding education, or building roads, or any other useful thing. And we wouldn't have interest to pay if the government printed its own money instead of having private bankers do it. The federal reserve is not part of the government! Its privately owned and the government has to borrow from them. Really!

P.S. To the guy who quotes the 16th amendment of the constitution; the supreme court has defined "income" as activities in corporate endeavors. Therefore corporate taxes are legal to collect, labor taxes are not legal to collect. This is all in the documentary.

As much as I, too, believe that our labor shouldn't be taxed, I've seen time and time again where the IRS and states have seized people's property in order to reap what they are "owed" by the tax evader. I'm as unhappy as everyone else about having to purchase a bridge in Alaska for a town smaller than my kid's elementary school, or having to pay the "be my friend" tax overseas (I can't tell you how many countries we regularly give money to in support of their "democracy". Shouldn't democracy be able to stand on its own?)

Its unfortunate that the general American public doesn't realize that the constitution is being whittled away at bit by bit. They are the frogs in the pot of water being brought to a slow boil.

I dont mind paying my fair share but it pisses me off that someone that never or not often works get back huge refunds and we support then on welfare, If they get a return it needs to go to the state not to them

Sounds a lot like a conspiracy theory.

When you get thrown in jail I will visit and write you a message on a dollar bill! (its an old jail thing) You will understand when you are in there.

I want a refund

Ask that guy from Ruby Ridge.

I haven't seen the documentary to which you refer, but it is nonsense.

The US constitution provides as follows:

Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

Therefore, the government does have the authority to levy income taxes.

the thing is even though you don't want to pay tax, the moment you received your check from your acctg. officer...tax was deducted already...and if you want to ask it back? that's tax evasion...and the US constitution is tricky, how many you lawyers do yo have in the state? how many congressmen? so that's probably the number of interpretation of the law you'll get...it's just a matter of a majority agreed on an issue.

Regardless of a law being on the books, it costs money to run teh government and all the services we recieve-seems like a joke, right? But, they do run the schools, prisons, pave roads, etc, adn those things all cost money. I don't mind paying for social service programs, either, because what is the alternative-more people out on the streets--that only leads to alot more crime-that's the not kind of society I want to live in.

On a broad scale, a nation is like a house. You live there, use it for your personal gain, and recieve benefit from it. You pay for the right to live in a house, and I have no problem with paying for the use of this country's services.

of course, every accoutning student is taught that the IRS is the biggest bully in America, punking people for thier cash and forcing them to audits and other abuses.

An national debt is not a America specific crime.... French Parliament is guilty of embezzlement, from thier culture as "previlleged elites" and thier Aristocracy, England's labour party may have represenatives of the people, but often sway opposite of popular opinion, and look at the problems of Mexico... unable to collect income tax (50% of thier national revenue comes form a single company), thier country has degraded, people are hurting in Mexico.... for peet's sakes! the price of tortillas is going up as we speak! Minium wage is 4 dollars a day, it's a travesty.

And, yeah, I ackowledge that much of the money goes towars national debt, that's part of thier strategy, liek it or not, it's part of the inflation cycle and America is still laregly succssful, even though we still have debts dating back to the Civil War.

Original Question: I would payincome tax if I knew and appreciate what I was recieving. If there's a paved road for cars, schools for children, police, fire deptpartment, hospitals, a plumbing system, and basic freedoms, I would be happy to be able to be a part of that society and would pay income tax. I mean, Sweden has 50% income tax, but the beenfits that it's citizens recieve outstrip everything in America, free medicine, even cosmetic surgery, free vacations, free college, musicians can even apply for an insttrument grant from the government. 50% is a heavy price to pay, but compared to that, America is quite delierious to pay 30% when middle class is too rich for financial aid and too poor to pay thier own way.

I beleive what you are reffering to is some inconsistancies in the wording of the states when the ratified the amemdment making income tax legal as well as something about one of the states not officially being a state when it voted for ratification. The major problem is that most people, myself included, would rather pay an unfair and illegal tax then sit in a jail cell and be right.

Did he also discuss why the government uses Payroll deduction rather than sending you a tax bill at the end of the year. They were afraid that once people saw the amount on a bill there would be riots and no one would pay.

There was no law requiring anyone to pay the Mafia for their "protection rackets" in gangland Chicago during the early part of the last century, but shop owners did anyway. The Mafia had more guns.

Same thing.

I don't know about the rest of what you said, but I know the federal reserve is part of the federal government. It is run by the board of governors, 7 members nominted by the president and approved by congress, they serve a 14 year term.

They make the decisions on how much money is to be printed and the amount of credit that is available to the country.

So that being said, I would have to say the rest of your reference was out to lunch also.

I would not pay taxes if the government did not use its legal monopoly on force (and threaten non-payers with imprisonment) to make me do so. Taxation is theft, pure and simple.

Compare the private voluntary sector to the coercive government sector. For a business owner to keep the doors open, he or she must provide goods and services at a price that customers arewilling to pay voluntarily. Fail to meet the demands of enough consumers, and the business fails. Voluntary agreement between buyer and seller is a win-win proposition.

In the coercive public sector, however, the government FORCES you to pay for goods and services you might not want - or may not even use! All government services are, in essence, public monopolies because the consumer (taxpayer) has no choice but to pay for them. Even if the consumer chooses a private alternative (ex. private schooling for their kids), they are still forced to pay for the government alternative (public schools).

Who really thinks that 90% of American children attend public schools because their parents believe that is the best option available to them?

In the private sector, there is a need to continuously improve the goods and services offered - either by offering better service, more innovation (a better product), or improved manufacturing and production methods (less expensive product). It's called competition.

In the public sector, there is NO mandate to offer a better good or service - because the 'customer' has no alternative! There is no competition in the government sector. So what if Post Office customers are unhappy about lost letters, slow service, and long lines? There is no alternative to the government's monopoly on first class mail service.

Additionally, political advantage often trumps customer need or want in the government sector. A Senator may insert a multi-billion dollar 'Bridge to Nowhere' grant in a bill to help his construction buddies back home that donated large sums of money to his re-election campaign. Those billions were directly confiscated from his 'constituents', the taxpayers - not to provided a needed service, but to help keep him in office.

That is why government, by nature, is inefficient and wasteful.

How has government managed the money that is takes from us? Let's see... At the federal level, the 'official' federal debt is around $8.5 TRILLION (give or take a few hundred billion). That is about $28,000 for every man, woman, and child in the United States.

The 'unofficial' federal debt - the future debt obligation to the many entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid) is estimated at $40-$80 TRILLION! Where will this money come from? This is debt that your kids and grandkids will be responsible for.

There was no federal income tax before 1913; yet, now taxation at all levels (federal, state, local) consumes 40% of the average American family's income in taxes (direct and hidden) - more than they pay for food, clothing AND shelter COMBINED!

Obviously, the government has been a poor steward at managing our money. Yet, they always think they are entitled to more of it. Still, people are under the false illusion that the politicians work for us. In fact, its just the opposite. Our lives and livelihood exist at the whims of the bureaucrats, to be folded, spindled, and mutilated at their convenience. We are nothing more than wage slaves to the almighty State. Keep that in mind the next time you 'vote' for your 'representation' in government.

Quite frankly, I pay because I would like to keep my house, car and income. The IRS does not mess around...I have known people who were left with less than $200 to feed and clothe, provide shelter for, pay their bills,etc, for 4 people for the month. Their earnings were over $4000 for the month.

Don't mess with the IRS, wrong, right or legal or illegal.

I found the film "Freedom to Fascism" to be intellectually dishonest and a vehicle for the filmmaker to further his political beliefs with blatant misformation. The film makes many extraordinary claims that can easily be countered with a few Google searches.

But don't take my word for it. From the NY Times:

"Facts Refute Filmmaker鈥檚 Assertions on Income Tax in 鈥楢merica鈥?quot;

"...examination of the assertions in Mr. Russo鈥檚 documentary.. shows... they ... collapse under the weight of fact."

"Many of the reviews in major newspapers have accepted as having some factual basis the film鈥檚 main contention, ... even though every court that has ever ruled on these issues has upheld the constitutionality of the income tax.

"All of the federal income tax revenue, the film says, goes to these bankers to pay interest on the national debt, even though by the broadest measure the federal government鈥檚 interest payments are less than 40 percent of the individual income taxes"

"... Mr. Russo says ...that the Internal Revenue Service has refused every request to show any law making Americans liable for an income tax on their wages. ... Yet among those thanked in the credits for their help in making the film is Anthony Burke, an I.R.S. spokesman. Mr. Burke said that when Mr. Russo called him asking what law required the payment of income taxes on wages, he sent Mr. Russo a link to documents, including Title 26 of the United States Code, citing the specific sections that require income taxes be paid on wages. Title 26 says on its face that it is law enacted by Congress."

"..Arguments made in court that the income tax is invalid are so baseless that Congress has authorized fines of $25,000 for anyone who makes them..."

"... Mr. Russo says in the film that the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified and thus a tax on wages is unconstitutional. This claim has been made in various forms by thousands of tax protesters since 1913, and so far their batting average with the courts is .000.
To buttress the claim that the 16th Amendment is invalid, the film displays a quotation from a federal district judge, James C. Fox. But the transcript from which the judge鈥檚 words were taken shows that while he spoke those words, they were in the context of laying out issues and that the conclusion he reached was the opposite of the words quoted."

(ref: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/movies...

Paying taxes doesn't bother me so( I live in Florida so no state taxes, federal isn't that much) what does bother me, is the tax refunds. Just because your not educated enough to get a good paying job and stop having children, doesn't mean the government should reward you with a 3,000 dollar tax refund.(I used to work at a tax place, so I know).