How can any true patriot support the Patriot Act?

If we give up our essential civil rights in pursuit of safety have not the Islamic radicals won?

Just because you don't personally know someone who's rights are abrogated in the interest of 'homeland security' does not mean that it has not occurred.

Just because I am an older, white woman with no ties to radical Islam doesn't mean that I might not have given to a 'humanitarian' charity which has been targeted by Justice as a conduit for funding terrorism. Once my name is on a list somewhere I am in danger of having my privacy invaded just so they can be 'sure' I'm not a terroritst.

It is the secrecy of the act scares me, law enforcement is less accountable for its actions when they invoke 'homeland security'.

One - What "essential civil rights" have been given up because of the Patriot Act, and how? My contention is that we have not given up any civil rights because of the Patriot Act. Freedom of speech? Press? Assemby? Religion? Bear Arms? Free from unreasonable searches and seizures? Warrants issue on probable cause? Right to a grand jury indictment for federal crimes? What "essential civil rights" have been "given up" and how?

Two - I would argue that giving up or retaining civil rights has nothing to do with whether Islamic radicals have won. I don't think the Islamic radicals consider themselves victorious by virtue of whether we have given up some civil rights. Frankly, I don't think they know what civil rights we have or don't have, and they certainly wouldn't stop fighting even if we gave up all of our civil rights. How would that benefit them one bit? what they are fighting for is (a) push back western influence on muslim countries (so that THEY do not have to respect the civil rights of their citizens) -- i.e. they don't care if WE don't have civil rights, they want to maintain their religious theocracies and ultimately create one Muslim caliphate that can challenge the rest of the world, and (b) destroy the US, Israel and western society in general, as a means to accomplishing goal (a).

So, NO - the Muslims have not won even if we assume that the Patriot Act makes us give up essential civil rights. Muslim victory is not based on what civil rights we have or don't have.

would you rather give up your life to an islamic suicide bomber?

Civil rights? For example? I have not had my e-mail or mail read. Nor have I been arrested nor do I know anyone who has been arrested for political reasons.

yes. and so you know, it is the PATRIOT act, not the Patriot act. It is an acronym that does not mean 'patriot'

All Patriots of the Greater Islamic Caliphate are upset by the Patriot Act, and I see that you are among them.

[I can't say it any better than Ben Franklin:

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" ]

Wow! I wonder if FDR (a Democrat) gave that any thought before he took away the rights to privacy of everyone in the country when he authorized all mail to be read and censored during WWII?

Yes, they have won. Regardless of what the Neo-Cons try and tell us.
They don't want to listen to their founding fathers, but want to preach about freedom and liberty and saving America. I can't say it any better than Ben Franklin:

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"

Yes, I would rather give my life to a suicide bomber within these borders than give up what this country represents. If it is noble for troops to fly across the world to defend our freedoms, doesn't it logically deduce that WE have to be willing to sacrifice OUR lives to preserve what makes this country great.
If we cower in the corner and fall to the politics of fear then what is it good for. If the freedoms I love mean I might die by a terrorist, then you know what I say....

BRING IT ON.

I have not given up any of my civil rights. Have you? Please post an update.

The title is obviously a lie to get people to buy into the act. No, any true patriot would not buy into the Patriot Act if they really see what it can do.

How about you tell us exactly what right you have had stripped away from you instead of just repeating the same old ridiculous claims.

Absolutely not. Historically in times of war, (do you understand that word-WAR), it has been necessary to give up small freedoms. I can guarantee that you have not been affected by the Patriot act, unless you have ties to terrorists. You are still allowed to spew this crap on Yahoo aren't you?

Patriot Act is only Patriotic in name only.

We are not really giving up our civil rights. The Patriot Act is simply an advanced warrant system. Just like with a regular warrant, the police would have to have probable cause to search. Just as the government would have to have probable cause to wire-tap. I know it sounds cliche', but its kinda true when they say if you aren't doing it, then you have nothing to worry about. We aren't giving up any rights we hadn't already given when the law about search warrants were issued.


Strike Eagle: between the time of 9/11 and the patriot act (the time of which we didn't have the patriot act) did YOU get suicide bombed? as a matter of fact did anybody?

Lars: You honestly need to look into this a little more. How exactly have the terrorists won? further more, how would they have won? What, is it like, without the patriot act, muslims would fly plane after plane into all of our nation's buildings? no. wire tappings and email-reading isn't going to stop terrorism. Also, if you look to your actual rights, the phone companies and e-mail websites reserve their rights to open up their communication lines to whomever they please. Its THEIR company and THEIR right. Have you ever had to make that choice between a suicide bomber and a telephone call? nope. Also, I dont recall any armies in the world constantly threating our freedoms anymore.

please people....think about this before you flame

Yes, they have and so has Big Brother.

Under the Patriot Act you only have to prove that you are an American citizen such as when opening a bank account for example.

So proving you are who you are gives Islam a win? Every other country requires such a thing and in many cases it is even harder. So requiring a person to prove that they are legally here gives up privacy? The government can track a person in a heartbeat if they want to already. If you are doing nothing wrong this all matters not.

Just from your question it is obvious that you have never bothered to read the patriot act.

I have and noticed that the only real change is in the fact that US Intelligence organizations are allowed to collect on persons in the US who have ties to foreign terrorist organizations or foreign intelligence services. The caveat is that any evidence obtained is not admissible in court.

Other than this all the act did was clarify existing law and remove some contradictory laws.

The more I study about the Patriot Act the more I see it as a portal to wrongful suspension of the legal rights and protections that made America a good and decent country built by people who were truly patriotic. Even the American Library Association is against it, for the misuse of books and literary integrity. It is not an Act useful to protect our rights, It is there deliberately to deprive of us of our rights or banish rights as certain members of government may choose to do so for purposes that would avoid legal oversight. This is always a very dangerous way to operate. I am very much against it and recommend that we demand that all government actions and laws comply with Sarbanes Oxley controls. This is a very serious matter.